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November 12, 2007

Comments

AF

I find this post unfair to Simon. The first point, about disclosure, seems overstated. Simon discloses his involvement in the Nextel case, at the beginning of the section discussing it. And it seems relatively obvious that his report in the case is substantially the same as his analysis in the article. Given the sophisticated nature of the article's likely readership, it seems quite improbable that the disclosure will be overlooked or the nature of Simon's involvement misunderstood.

The post's second point, that "when people stake out positions on issues, whether by choice or by employment, they subsequently have difficulty remaining objective about the merits of their positions," seems similarly misplaced. On its face, this would apply to all arguments, since even the most unbiased arguments "stake out positions on issues . . . by choice." Even if the point is limited to positions taken in non-academic settings, it seems far too broad. It overlooks the possibility that the author committed to the position out of belief in his own argument -- which hardly detracts from the credibility of the argument. Further, it leads to the untenable conclusion that arguments should not be taken at face value unless their authors refrain from becoming involved in any related real-world disputes. The ordinary tools of academic analysis, aided by full disclosure, seem adequate to distinguish between good and bad arguments, without adjusting for cognitive biases deriving from the fact that their authors have "stake[d] out positions on the issue."

I should add that though I post semi-anonymously for professional reasons, I have never met Simon or any of the individuals mentioned in Simon's article, and learned about the Nextel case for the first time upon reading the article.

Andrew Perlman

AF,

Thanks for your comments. Given the conspiracy of silence point in Prof. Simon's article, your anonymity seems particularly appropriate!

With regard to your first point, Professor Simon did mention that he played a role in the case, but I think people should know the full extent of that involvement. Professor Simon offers very little in this regard, and given that other information about the case is not easily accessible, the omission leaves me unable to judge whether he is presenting the Nextel case in an objective way.

As for your second point, my primary concern is that we can't fully assess Professor Simon's arguments about the Nextel matter, because (again) a lot of the underlying documents are not yet publicly available. As a result, our ability to assess his arguments turns to some degree on his motives. So it's not simply that he worked on the case that leads me to question his conclusions; it's that we have very little else to go on in a case where expert testimony was still being offered as of last week.

Another reason that I am concerned about Professor Simon's role is that he is not simply describing a substantive disagreement; he is impugning other people's integrity. I think such criticism can be appropriate. But I think that, before Professor Simon attacks the integrity of the defense experts in Nextel, he should describe his precise involvement in the case more prominently and fully.

To summarize, readers are being asked to draw some pretty big conclusions about the targets of Professor Simon's article without being able to easily access all of the relevant information. Given Professor Simon's role in the case (which is still a bit vague), I am reluctant to buy into his conclusions without a lot more information.

RJC

Andrew

Does it follow from your argument that we now need to know about your relationships with Hazard and Wolfram? Are they your friends, were you once a student of either, do you use their books, have they vetted your manuscripts, recommended your work to journals, invited you to appear on panels, visit? Did they ask you to defend them? Why go down the road of "genetic argument"? Why not just join issue with Simon on the merits, to the extent that is possible, and where it is not possible, indicate as much and say why? What is served by reproducing behavior you attribute to Simon and find fault with? Simon's article is provocative only because he name names - why not have at it on its own terms (or is that what you are doing, naming his name)? What's the point of a frolic and detour? Who cares about his motives if his analysis holds up, and if it does not hold up then bad motives are the least of his problem. Why the big flanking action?

Andrew Perlman

RJC,

For starters, I don't know Hazard personally, and I have met Professor Wolfram a couple of times. That's it. Otherwise, I don't have a professional or personal connection with either of them.

Regarding the rest of your point, I would love to be able to assess Professor Simon's arguments on the merits (in the Nextel case), but I can't. That's my point. There's so much about this case that we don't know that I can't draw any meaningful conclusions. I have no idea whether his analysis holds up, because I haven't seen the record in the case. When you add the lack of available evidence to Professor Simon's personal involvement in the case, we're left with some serious questions about Professor Simon's conclusions in the Nextel matter.

It's for these reasons that my concerns are not a frolic and detour. Professor Simon attacks the character of the Nextel experts, and we have very little to go on regarding that attack. Professor Simon may, in fact, be right about what he says, but given Professor Simon's involvement in the case and the lack of other evidence, I'm not willing to draw any conclusions about the targets of his article (at least as to the Nextel matter).

jc

A very interesting article by Simon, makes a valid point with which I very much agree. As for the naming of names, it is most effective in those instances where the appendix gives a copy of the legal opinion letters with which Simon finds fault. I am less persuaded in those instances where I really have to take his word for what people said in a particular case. He names several names, but the appendix only provides two examples. I think if Simon worked on a matter at all it is inappropriate to use that as an example.

(By way of full disclosure while remaining anonymous, I know one of the targets casually, don't know the others.) But I really agree with the overall point Simon raises about the flawed market for ethics opinions such as this.

AF

Andrew -- Thanks for the responses, which seem valid, though I am still unclear what further information we need about Simons's involvement. The real problem seems to be that it is difficult to assess his arguments as the underlying documents are not publicly available. Presumably, Simons's response would be that the solution is to make the documents available and have a debate, and that in the mean time "incomplete discussion is better than no discussion." But as you point out, that is a debatable proposition.

I post semi-anonymously (you can get my email from my initials) because, given my current position, I don't want my web comments coming up on Google searches for my name. I have nothing whatsoever to do with this case. However, now that I have staked out a position, I may have cognitive biases!

Andrew Perlman

AF,

My thoughts on this issue have definitely become more refined since my original post, as I have benefited from comments on the blog and from communications with other people. (Put another way, although I have staked out a position and developed some predisposition to defend it, I am open to adjusting it to some degree...)

I would say, at this point, that my primary concern is the combination of Professor Simon's involvement in the case PLUS the lack of easily accessible documents to assess the merits of his attacks on the defense experts. If all of the relevant information were easily accessible, my concerns about Professor Simon's personal involvement would be diminished.

In the meantime, I continue to urge considerable caution about drawing any conclusions about the defense experts in Nextel. As John Steele notes, there was a jury verdict for the defense last week. Obviously, that doesn't necessarily undermine Professor Simon's arguments, but it does suggest that there is more nuance here than meets the eye.

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