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November 20, 2005

Comments

David Hricik

We just finished an interesting colloquium here on professionalism led by William Sullivan of the Carnegie Foundation, and his very thoughtful book, Work & Integrity. Though far afield from this point, that recent experience leads me to disagree in part.

I'm concerned that if we (the bar) do not aggressively police our image, others will do it for us, and at that point our position as a profession will be in jeopardy, if not be lost. We need to be "too serious" rather than not serious enough, in simple terms. If that means that, on occasion, we stop ads that are on the margins, I think that's a good thing, not a bad one.

As for this ad in particular, I agree with you that the court went too far, since the ad in its context seems both nonmisleading and arguably informative. But to me, and I'm writing with concerns about our professional independence heightened right now, it's at the margins and I'd rather they shut it down than we as a consequence have ads governed by law and regulations drafted by outsiders, rather than our own imperfect approach.

Andrew Perlman

This post hits the nail on the head. Advertising rules are enforced in often absurd ways, and the case you mention in Florida is one of a number of examples that come to mind. I agree with you completely about the Went For It case. It's really an awful decision and has contributed to the overzealousness of many bar associations in the area of lawyer advertising. The link that the Court endorses between advertising and the profession's image and trust in the judicial system is not only weak, but it's refuted by serious studies that have examined the question.

David (Hricik), I'm not sure I agree with your concern that, if the profession lets more advertising take place, others will define our image. By "others," do you mean other lawyers will be defining the profession's image instead of bar associations? If that's what you're suggesting, I'm just skeptical that more advertising will have especially dire consequences for the profession.

Andy

Eric Goldman

David M, I agree with almost everything you write. However, I think you too quickly dismiss the power of brand advertising on shaping consumer perceptions for the class of goods. If lawyers consistently run advertisements that analogize themselves to [pick your favorite ruthless killer from the animal kingdom], over time consumers will make those cognitive associations implicitly. Therefore, this type of advertising absolutely has the power to affect consumer perceptions of lawyers.

But so what? While I suspect that these cognitive effects would have deleterious effects on the legal industry, I don't know that to be the case. Intuition-based guesses about the consequences of consumer perceptions are unreliable at best, which is why I think this opinion and outcome are so condemnable. Eric.

David Hricik

I'm not sure I agree with my post, either, but by others I mean: legislators/the public. Look at what's happened to accounting (not because of ads, but it's the same principle).

"The cost of independence is eternal vigilance." :0)

David Giacalone

Eric, The public called lawyers sharks long before the notion of marketing campaigns and branding were ever conceived. Your last sentence is the most apt: "so what"?

David Hricik

I'll continue a bit: "Even if one accepts the indefensible premise that the state has a compelling interest in seeing to it that people see lawyers the "right" way..." I think that premise is quite defensible, for the reasons I stated above: if we don't allow ourselves to be policed, we'll be policed by others. I'd rather a court err a bit and take away the vital 1st amendment right to have dog on a lawyer ad than we go down a slippery slope where, eventually, it willl lead to great regulation.

If I understand the "so what" comment: that's what matters here, not the dog, or what consumers think of the dog, or whether the referee is right or not. It is a much larger issue than that: freedom of our profession may require greater regulation than the 1st amendment might allow plumbers.

Andrew Perlman

How exactly is the profession's liberalization of advertising rules going to lead to more outsider regulation of the profession? I'm not sure I see the connection between distasteful ads and government oversight of lawyers.

David McGowan

David H--

I think we may disagree on the proper ends of such policies. I tend to think in economic terms, so I would distinguish between the welfare of lawyers and social welfare in general. I think policies should maximize social welfare, not lawyer welfare.

It might well be that limits on advertising are good for lawyers because they help shore up a self-regulatory system. Whether that is good for society depends on whether self-regulation is good for society. I think self-regulation tends to be systematically self-serving, so I do not see erosion of self-regulation as inherently bad for society, though it might be bad for lawyers.

So I defend the claim that the state has no legitimate interest in controlling public opinions about lawyers on the ground that the restrictions through which such control is attempted will tend to reduce social welfare by denying consumers information they deem relevant. To me, the possibly correct proposition that such restrictions benefit lawyers as a class (though not those who wish to advertise) is not a defense of the restrictions. In fact, that a policy enhances lawyer welfare at the expense of consumers seems to me more an indictment of self-regulation than a defense.

If one thinks self-regulation is good for society, of course, one could defend the restrictions on net welfare grounds. For a variety of reasons, however, I am extremely skeptical of that claim.

DM

David Hricik

Andy: The more the public perceives that we need to be regulated, the more likely we are to be so. I think that's the connection.

Andrew Perlman

David (McGowan), your point that we shouldn't be terribly concerned about outsiders having more regulatory control is a good one, albeit more radical.

My response to David (Hricik) is more modest in that I am skeptical that distasteful advertising will lead to more control over the profession more generally. David, you say that, if the profession perceives that we need to be regulated, it's more likely to happen. I'm just not sure that I agree as an empirical matter that distateful ads will lead to more outside regulation in areas other than advertising. I guess we just disagree on the empirical link here.

David Hricik

David & Andy: I guess I would say we agree and disagree! David M: Perhaps you take too narrow of a view of the social good that is created by being a self-regulating profession, would be my argument. We -- lawyers, yes, but society as a whole -- would lose much if lawyering becomes nothing more than the sale of expertise, tightly regulated and with little professional autonomy. The reasons for self-regulation are not just self-protection, I believe, but that is perhaps where we part ways. Again, William Sullivan's book has got me thinking more about the value of professionalism as such, and I think it creates public good, not just private gain for lawyers.

With Andy's point, I believe ads will make a big point because they are visible to the public. I have been told, or perhaps even read, the studies that link the decline in lawyer perception with the rise of lawyer advertising, and I know the Justices in the seminal cases believe there to be a link, but I don't have any direct empirical support -- just a hunch or better worded, a fear.

Michael Krauss

I disagree with the main posting. If lawyering is a profession, not a business, then the profession should be able to police its image. Pure economic analysis of course is unable to fully derive ethical and professional groundings, which is one reason why it is a grossly incomplete way to look at Legal Ethics.

carol smith

i am not in accordance with the core posting this is because being a lawyer is one's main job and not an investment.there are many good lawyers out there.

carol
http://www.floridadrugrehab.com

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